The Worst Cars Bought By My Clients - The Podcast

"SteveLehto" (stevelehto) 02/04/2016 at 09:00 • Filed to: None

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I’ve been dealing with car buyers all day long for the past 24 years. Many people think this means people who are too nit-picky and are complaining about things you and I would put up with. Oh, au contraire. The cars they complain of are bad. Really, really bad.

How about a Franken-car, made up of junkyard rejects by a guy teaching himself to weld? Or the truck that tried to kill the first man to drive it? Trucks with masked engine problems, or cars baited-and-switched on less than vigilant internet buyers?

I made a quick list of the worst of the worst and talk about them in this week’s podcast. There were more - many more - but we only have so much time in a single podcast.

So, here is the audio:

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And the video:

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This website may supply general information about the law but it is for informational purposes only. This does not create an attorney-client relationship and is not meant to constitute legal advice, so the good news is we’re not billing you by the hour for reading this. The bad news is that you shouldn’t act upon any of the information without consulting a qualified professional attorney who will, probably, bill you by the hour.

MoparMap > SteveLehto 02/04/2016 at 09:26

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Sometimes I think one of the previous owners of my car owned a junkyard. By title and VIN it’s a 1967 Dart. I knew going in that it had some panels replaced and a 69 grille on it, which was fine with me because I liked the 69 grille more anyway. I think the only other 1967 pieces are the taillights, window crank handles, and windshield gasket. Front brakes appears to be from an E body, rear axle was F body, engine was a 75 model year I think, trans a 73. Have been told radiator was from a C body, etc. I looked it over in person though and kind of knew what I was getting, it’s just hard identifying what everything originally came out of sometimes when you need replacements for wear items like brake pads. Pretty sure someone just kept bolting on parts till it looked like a car and drove.

Admittedly I don’t mind all that much as I’ve since replaced of a lot of the parts anyway. Modern 5.7 Hemi with a T56 and bigger rear axle. At last count I think I was up to around 13 vehicles that my car has parts from.

RamblinRover Luxury-Yacht > SteveLehto 02/04/2016 at 09:31

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The crazy thing is, between what appears to be a pretty intact chassis, a straight roof with intact stainless trim, and a whole bunch of miscellaneous hardware, that ‘60 is probably worth $600 to the right buyer... who, being no fool to have found it in the first place will probably haggle to $400, so “worth” is a relative term. ‘58-’60 Cads are insanely inflated vice ‘58-60 Lincolns and Imperials.

SteveLehto > RamblinRover Luxury-Yacht 02/04/2016 at 09:33

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It was dumped by the side of the road so I think the “seller” had given up on selling it.

RamblinRover Luxury-Yacht > SteveLehto 02/04/2016 at 09:37

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In other words, the one guy who might have wanted it couldn’t find it, or the seller ran out of patience. “What we’ve got here is... failure, to c’municate”. Time for the most unexpected LeMons entry ever, sez I.

SteveLehto > RamblinRover Luxury-Yacht 02/04/2016 at 09:38

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Can we shoe-horn in a crate Hemi? If so, I am in.

RamblinRover Luxury-Yacht > SteveLehto 02/04/2016 at 09:40

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Whatever it is has to be RWD due to the frame design, so the 2CV swap is sadly right out. Unless it’s in the trunk.

Paullubbock > SteveLehto 02/04/2016 at 09:49

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Thanks Steve for all your great advice. I may be heading to San Antonio this weekend to look at what looks like a great vehicle (from the pictures) to possibly purchase. It is a 5hr drive but still in state and I want to be sure what the pictures show is exactly what the vehicle is. I don’t expect it to be perfect but at least for all its main function parts to be in good running condition and properly described and to test drive.

SteveLehto > Paullubbock 02/04/2016 at 09:50

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Thanks.

And cool on the potential new/used car. Let me know how it turns out.

McPherson > SteveLehto 02/04/2016 at 10:02

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I knew a guy who actually did splice car halves together. He specialized in older Sentras and Corollas; not sure if he revealed the truth to buyers. The man was a real schemer, anything for a buck.

GLiddy > SteveLehto 02/04/2016 at 10:14

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My late mother bought a new Chrysler Pacifica. Often when she drove it, the engine would just die. When this happened, all the power assisted devices would become nearly non-operational. Steering, brakes, etc. On a couple occasions the car almost went into the ditch before she could get the car stopped.

The dealer was absolutely useless in this. They would take the car and test drive it and say that they couldn’t replicate the problem, so they would give it back to her. I even went so far as to buy a OBDII data logger and put it in the car for the next time it happened, and captured the event. I went with her and showed them the log. (The log actually showed nothing except for the engine running fine and then nothing...the car died and no further data.) Still it was proof that the engine shut down.

They were absolutely useless. Then my mom died from health issues and my brother got the car. He just suffered through this mess until he wore the car out and donated it. (You can search Pacifica engine shut down and you’ll find many stories.) I don’t understand how GM didn’t get away with their cars shutting down, while Chrysler seems to have. Maybe enough people weren’t killed in Pacificas when the engine unexpected died.

What do you do when a dealers mechanic comes back to you and says, “It worked fine for me”? Is it time to sue?

Mustang 'DontHitTheCrowd' GT > MoparMap 02/04/2016 at 10:19

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Franken-Dart! Have a pic?

SteveLehto > GLiddy 02/04/2016 at 10:22

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First, try a different dealer. I’ve had some people who were NPFd at one dealer only to have another dealer find the problem. But if several dealers can’t find it, then go on line and see if it is widespread. Check NHTSA. If it is, go back and bitch more at the dealer. If the car is new and young enough, take it back in enough times to qualify as a lemon and then sue.

icelandr > SteveLehto 02/04/2016 at 10:24

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For VIN swapped cars that was mentioned by MoparMap below, I think my 2008 Trailblazer SS had a neat VIN. For a class we were supposed to decode it, and it wasn’t what I expected. Having a 3SS model, and being told that the vehicle came from Michigan prior to making its way to North Dakota. The dealer couldn’t look up the previous owner, and assumed it was internal to GM for the first 10.5K miles. Learning of GM’s ambassador program and how managers get cars it makes sense.

The VIN was for an LS fleet model Trailblazer fitted with a 6.0L V8. Wish it wasn’t stolen, as I found the unique VIN kind of funny.

BigBlock440 > SteveLehto 02/04/2016 at 10:39

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Plenty of room in the, uh, “engine bay” of that one, no shoehorning necessary.

SteveLehto > BigBlock440 02/04/2016 at 10:41

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True. And with no hood, the monster Supercharger will have room as well.

mantawolf2 > SteveLehto 02/04/2016 at 10:42

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Well it’s a ‘49, ‘50, ‘51, ‘52, ‘53, ‘54, ‘55, ‘56, ‘57 ‘58' 59' Automobile

Johnny Cash, One Piece at a Time

BigBlock440 > icelandr 02/04/2016 at 10:43

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His story wasn’t about a VIN swapped car, but a ‘67 that has been modified.

jimz > GLiddy 02/04/2016 at 10:55

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I don’t understand how GM didn’t get away with their cars shutting down, while Chrysler seems to have. Maybe enough people weren’t killed in Pacificas when the engine unexpected died.

because in the GM case, the ignition switch was moving and turning the car off which turned off the restraints controls. An engine cut off isn’t the same, the car still is awake and has electrical power.

jimz > SteveLehto 02/04/2016 at 10:56

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BTW Lehto’s Law has gotten me into podcasts. Ever since WRIF canned Drew & Mike* I’ve been looking for something like a “drive time” radio program.

(*can’t stand Dave & Chuck “The Freak”)

Mr. Flareside > mantawolf2 02/04/2016 at 10:59

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First thing I thought of aswell

SteveLehto > jimz 02/04/2016 at 11:01

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Thanks for the note. I remember the whole hubbub about them canning Drew and Mike for the guys from Canada.

I can’t listen to the radio anymore. Hasn’t been good in years, it seems.

TheRealBicycleBuck > McPherson 02/04/2016 at 11:09

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A friend of mine’s step-uncle did that for a living. That’s how his step-brother ended up with a 10th Anniversary 280z. The front-half (with the VIN) was from the 10th Anniversary Z, the back half was from a regular Z.

I watched the step-uncle do the same thing to a mid-’80s Mustang Cobra that my buddy was wanting to buy. He changed his mind when we took it for a test drive. It had some electrical gremlins which caused it to die several times and there was a nasty shimmy that showed up at speed.

McPherson > TheRealBicycleBuck 02/04/2016 at 11:14

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Gosh, for some reason, the splicing operation seems more dicey with a rear drive car.

AlsoKnownAsRukh > SteveLehto 02/04/2016 at 11:14

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Oh man, Steve, you’d have to lead with an image of a 1960 Sedan DeVille Flattop - my kryptonite. I’d probably be the guy who would buy that basketcase.

someday...

MoparMap > Mustang 'DontHitTheCrowd' GT 02/04/2016 at 11:17

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Lol, that’s exactly what I call it.

SteveLehto > AlsoKnownAsRukh 02/04/2016 at 11:20

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I would have no idea which specific Caddy it was. Thanks.

I was just going through my own picture collections looking for one I took of a car for sale that had some comedic value.

tommyscooter > SteveLehto 02/04/2016 at 11:23

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On a somewhat related note. I am disgusted by vintage Vespa scooters selling like plaque that are known as vietbodges. Google it. They are sold as fully restored with all new parts when if fact the are dangerously welded from two or more pieces of frame and use shady parts like beer cans for bearings. They present well with bondo and smooth paint, often two tone and no shops will touch them. Should be legal recourse for those who unwittingly buy them and find out the hard way later. I watched the shifter tube(on handlebar) break on one at slow speed. At speed it would have been catastrophic. They are all over eBay and have plenty of fools bidding on them.

dustynnguyendood > SteveLehto 02/04/2016 at 11:26

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The first car was “clipped”. Very common practice, even to this day. Way more dangerous now than 20 years ago - because of the high-strength steel dominating the construction of todays cars. The old Charger was “safer”, even cobbled together as it had virtually zero high strength steel. The higher strength of steel it is, the less tolerant it is of heating and welding. Up until last year, I emission tested vehicles for the state of California and we often saw “rebuilt” cars being re-registered - Many of them were horribly assembled - looked great on the outside, but underneath it looked like crumpled tin foil that had been “straightened”.

The thing that amazes me is California, correctly perceived by many of the nanniest of nanny states - does not require *any* structural inspection of rebuilt totals for retitling. They require a VIN verification by a peace officer (to make sure its not stolen), a “brake and lamp” inspection (making sure all the lamps work and the brakes are of legal thickness and sound) and finally an emission inspection. ZERO structural inspection.

People are buying salvage title cars off of CL and many are driving around in death traps - people aren’t afraid of salvage cars anymore and they certainly should be.

SteveLehto > dustynnguyendood 02/04/2016 at 11:28

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I did a piece on this a while back and even interviewed a MSP trooper about what Salvage Rebuilt actually meant and so on. And yes, driving in a rebuilt salvage vehicle is much like playing Russian Roulette.

Josh Bailey > GLiddy 02/04/2016 at 11:28

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My old 2003 V8 Ford Explorer used to shut off a lot when coasting. My brother's 2004 V6 Ford Explorer would do the same thing. I have known several people with Mustangs from that era that had similar issues. While it could be fixed by replacing the IAC valve, it was still a bit nerve wracking to lose all power accessories while driving down the road. I got quite good of knowing when it was about to happen and either being able to give the gas peddle a quick press to stop it from shutting off or putting the transmission in neutral and restarting it while still driving if I was too late.

55_wrench > SteveLehto 02/04/2016 at 11:29

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This happened to a former workmate who had a ‘88 or so Cougar. It would stall out with no warning, if you let it sit for awhile it would fire up again and you’d be on your way. No dealer he took it to could find the problem, so he decided to trade it in. As he rolled up to a Honda dealer, the car died. He went inside, bought a new Accord, and by then once the dealer started the Cougar, it fired up like nothing was wrong.

A month later he got a phone call from the dealer, bent out of shape due to his lack of disclosure..who then added they found the fault in a loose body ground near the trunk.

Dealer said this happened frequently in Ford products of that vintage.

Dylan > MoparMap 02/04/2016 at 11:41

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Sounds amazing.

dustynnguyendood > SteveLehto 02/04/2016 at 11:43

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Done correctly, the repaired car can be just as safe as the original, undamaged car. But most of these backyard rebuilds have just had lipstick stuck on the broken pig.

Salvage vehicles should ALWAYS be inspected by a body shop and mechanic before purchase and if the seller cannot or will not provide pictures of the car prior to repair and be willing to list exactly what was replaced then they are dishonest and the car should be immediately passed over.

A proper repairer is used to documenting these things for the insurance company and will gladly do it for one they are selling (some body shops will rebuild cars for resale when they are slow)

I’m in the industry here in CA and this has become a mission of mine - with all the regulations the industry has to deal with, this aspect is totally ignored and the general public is being put at risk. The DMV points to the BAR (bureau of automotive repair) as the one that regulates body shops and the BAR points to the DMV as the one that titles vehicles and neither will do anything. Maddening.

SteveLehto > dustynnguyendood 02/04/2016 at 11:49

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The problem is that “done correctly” is not how most of them do it. They buy two wrecks and to save money, they slap them together as cheaply as possible. Doing it correctly would likely cost more, cutting into the profit margin.

Keep up the good work (knowing that trying to get the bureaucrats to do their jobs is a fool’s errand.)

dustynnguyendood > SteveLehto 02/04/2016 at 12:04

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Exactly. You used to be able to heat up, bend and massage things back into place. You can’t do that anymore - if it’s bent, it has to be replaced and that can get real expensive, real fast. Couple that with all the airbags ($20K cars now have 10 or more of them), you deploy a couple of them and bend some things and you’ve totalled that $20K car. Someone buys it from the insurance auctions for a couple grand, heats up and straightens that high strength steel (ruining its strength in the process), throws some filler on the stuff that wont smooth out and sells it for $10K to some unsuspecting person who thinks they’re getting a good deal on a safe car for their family.

Bultaco's JMOD TownCar drives his pa to drinkin > SteveLehto 02/04/2016 at 12:07

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There’s a no-credit, no-problem used auto lot near me that posts what are clearly base level cars with trim level “upgrades.” Had me scratching my head a few months ago until I looked an exterior shot of a trunk and realized: “Hey... them letters aint factory!” I can only imagine what else is going on with those cars under the hood.

Highlander-Datsuns are Forever > SteveLehto 02/04/2016 at 12:22

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My mother-in-law totaled her honda civic in an accident in Iowa. The farmer who lived on that icy corner just so happened to have an identical honda civic that was totaled on the front end. She got her insurance money then paid him to connect the front end of her car to the rear end of his car. She drove that car for another 15 years with almost no issues.

autojim > SteveLehto 02/04/2016 at 12:41

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Back in the late ‘80s, a friend asked me to look at an ‘85 Corvette she was considering. Walking up to the car, something wasn’t quite right — the entire rear of the car seemed to be shifted toward the driver’s side, but I couldn’t quite place the error.

The Atari dashboard flickering like a demented Christmas tree, however, got my attention. Also, various lights around the car were turning on and off by themselves and the headlamp pods would start to open, then close, at random intervals whenever the ignition was on and the doors would lock and unlock every few seconds.

A quick peek under the dash revealed a sea of blue 3M Scotchlock connectors splicing the entire wiring harness together. Horrified, yet fascinated, I kept looking at the car, discovering evidence that the front bodywork had been one color originally, the doors, roof panel, and targa band another color, and the rear quarters and fascia yet another color (none of which were the current color of the car). And the seller said the rear hatch glass couldn’t be opened — it looked like the latch was out of alignment with the centerline of the hinge area.

At that, I went under the car. All became clear. This was 3 different cars spliced together. The center section was offset left of the front section where they joined at roughly the firewall, and the rear section (starting just behind the doors) was offset left of the front section... which explained both the weird appearance of the car and the hatch misalignment.

We didn’t bother driving it. I did let a friend on the local PD’s auto theft desk know about it, though.

rubix > SteveLehto 02/04/2016 at 12:48

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Oh man, taking advantage of a blind guy is pretty low!

Gideon33New > SteveLehto 02/04/2016 at 13:25

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I wonder how much of this could be avoided with a vehicle history report. Most of the ones I’ve seen are missing tons of info but I imagine an insurance total would always show up.

SteveLehto > Gideon33New 02/04/2016 at 13:36

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You’d think so. My clients Charger was pre-Carfax. I have also heard of guys who bought vehicles at auction and quickly pulled a Carfax (before the auction showed up). When they sold the car, they showed the buyer the Carfax, knowing many people won’t look to see WHEN the Carfax was generated.

Gideon33New > SteveLehto 02/04/2016 at 13:48

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Interesting. So I guess it’s “Better than nothing but not foolproof”.

Is there liability,or some type of requirement to report any of the data that shows up on a vehicle history report?

Fred von Halem > SteveLehto 02/04/2016 at 13:50

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Just downloaded all your podcasts, I’m starting from the beginning.

IGetPwnedOften > SteveLehto 02/04/2016 at 13:50

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The first story in the cast is what is known in the UK as a cut’n’shut, and they are absolutely deadly - I would imagine near enough everyone on here knows that nearly all modern cars are a monocoque design and 99% of the structural strength comes from the body shell.

If you cut into any of the structural parts of the body shell, that car should be written off, and I’ll say that the chap in the video was extremely lucky, because with a cut’n’shut, the simplest accident can often result in the car breaking in half...

SteveLehto > Gideon33New 02/04/2016 at 14:56

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Not really. That’s the problem.

SteveLehto > Fred von Halem 02/04/2016 at 14:59

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That’s quite an undertaking!

Thunder > SteveLehto 02/04/2016 at 15:39

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You might find this one interesting, Steve.

Bicyclist in your great state of Michigan cited for riding left of the fog line by really teed-off cop. Loses in court; takes it to circuit court and wins.

http://oppositelock.kinja.com/bicyclist-figh…

SteveLehto > Thunder 02/04/2016 at 15:54

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Very nice.

I ride a lot and too many people have no idea that bikes have a right to be there. Sad that a cop didn’t know it.

DavidHH > SteveLehto 02/04/2016 at 16:03

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Steve, I fought VW over a new Vanagon with 23 defects, thru the BBB, which “accidentally lost the file, and can’t reopen it”. So I had to cover for most of the repairs, for things like a bent AC Compressor shaft, bend brake drum and rotor on one side, etc. etc., because VW decided not to honor their warranty. The dealership was owned at the time by VW, as it had failed. Apparently the final dealer prep. involved dropping the car, seriously.

Needless to say, THANK YOU for helping other people when they were screwed over the purchase of a car !!!!

MarkoftheIsland > tommyscooter 02/04/2016 at 16:19

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These are a nightmare. I had a girlfriend who bought a Lambretta from Vietnam that was barely held together with bondo and chicken wire. It looked great until things started to fail left, right and center.

MarkoftheIsland > SteveLehto 02/04/2016 at 16:21

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One of the best pieces of advice I ever received was to never buy a car that has been resprayed white. It seems that white helps hide issues with the body not being quite straight. This advice saved me from buying an E-Type that was too good a price.

compu_85 > SteveLehto 02/04/2016 at 17:00

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That happened to one of my friends. Another in Ohio had an 85 Jetta he wrecked, then moved the plate onto an 86 Golf. The accident showed up on the carfax of the Golf!

Eren Jäger > IGetPwnedOften 02/05/2016 at 00:21

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Speaking of “Cut n’ Shut vehicles” I remember the season finale episode, from the first season of Pimp My Ride. The vehicle was a “Cut n’ Shut Ford Escort.” Needless to say, the guys at West Coast Customs didn’t pimp that ride. Instead, they purchased and pimped a (brand new at the time) 2004 Scion xB.

Here’s the episode I’m talking about:

Kart22racer > MoparMap 02/05/2016 at 00:58

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Did Johnny Cash own the car before you?

MoparMap > Kart22racer 02/05/2016 at 08:07

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Sometimes I wonder. Currently it’s made up of parts from 1967 to roughly 2006 or so. I have parts from all of the big three automakers in it too, though some are aftermarket (like a shifter designed for a Mustang, but not made by Ford).

Jim Babcock > SteveLehto 02/08/2016 at 07:06

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So you didn’t say, do Internet buyers that get a misrepresented car have a leg (or tire) to stand on?

SteveLehto > Jim Babcock 02/08/2016 at 09:48

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Same as any other buyer - except that your seller might be harder to sue, depending on where they are.

SasquatchMelee > GLiddy 02/08/2016 at 10:23

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If it’s anything like the same issue in grand caravans of the time, something inside the ECU was bad. With the grand caravan it usually occurred when hitting a bump. My mechanic buddy would shop test it by starting the car then hitting the ECU with a hammer LOL

GLiddy > SasquatchMelee 02/08/2016 at 11:02

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The most annoying thing was the refusal of the dealer to help. Even at the time, there were people complaining of the same issue on internet forums. Obviously there was a problem, but they acted as if my mother had nothing better to do than take the car back again and again. Its been so long I can’t clearly remember, but I recall she did take it to another Chrysler dealer and they reflashed or replaced the ECU, and the problem got better but never totally went away.

The bottom line is that I don’t buy American anymore. Chrysler, Ford, GM. I’ve owned or experienced them all and they have come up lacking. My last 3 cars were Nissan, Lexus and Acura, and I’ve been nothing but pleased.

SasquatchMelee > GLiddy 02/08/2016 at 16:01

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Sucks. I’ve had shit luck with Ford and won’t buy again. I don’t dare roll the dice on FCA. GM has been good to me but I know their reliability is a mixed bag depending on the model. Sadly I’m too tall to comfortably drive most imports. Head hits the roof, knees hit the dash, or seats are too small/unsupportive.